j linka Says:
April 28, 2010 at 12:52 am edit
I am Lutheran and know we are saved by believing in Jesus Christ. I have not read all of your replies carefully but feel you are saying that the Catholic Church does not believe we are receiving real communion in our own church. Is that the Catholic view?
FOR SOME REASON I AM UNABLE TO POST A REPLY. SO I WILL HAVE TO DO IT IN A POST
Dear J linka,
You may be receiving communion with the members of your church but you are not receiving the body and blood, soul and divinity of Jesus Christ.
Your beliefs are not in union with us because we believe that were are saved not merely by believing in Jesus but also by eating and drinking His flesh and blood as He tell us in John 6:48I am the bread of life. 49 Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died. 50 But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die. 51I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.”
52Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
53Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. 56Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
The Lutherans along with all Protestants do not have a valid Eucharist in the sense that after the prayers it is not longer bread and wine, except in appearance, but it is actually the real body and blood of Our Lord.
So, it is safe for you to partake of your Lutheran bread and wine b/c it is merely bread and wine. It only symbolizes Jesus. If it were the real body and blood of Jesus Lutherans would not just get rid of the leftovers as so much garbage but reverently reserve it in a holy place as Catholics do.
You might find some other posts here interesting:
Eucharist p3
Eucharist p.2
Not only Protestants, but also Cardinals, Bishops, and Priests that are members of the Masonic Lodge cannot consecrate.
No matter how hard they try, they cannot tirn bread and wine into the Body and Blood of our Divine Master.
That is why they seek fallen Priests to consecrate Hosts for them.
May God our Lord in His infinite and supreme goodness be pleased to give us His abundant grace, that we may know His most holy will, and entirely fulfill it.
*
Pablo, I don’t think that is correct. A priest in mortal sin can still consecrate b/c it is by the power of Jesus. If the state of a priest’s soul determined whether he could confect the Eucharist the faithful would always be wondering about the validity of every mass.
Can you support your statement with an authoritative document?
God Bless Pam Forrester bfhu.wordpress.com
,
I have put forth this point to a Monk at a Benedictine Monestary for his consderation.
I am also forwarding the question to a Traditional Archbishop the Holy Father is using to help repair Christ’s Church here in the American Southwest.
I will keep you tuned…
May God our Lord in His infinite and supreme goodness be pleased to give us His abundant grace, that we may know His most holy will, and entirely fulfill it.
*
I live in the American Southwest. Which Archbishop?
Cofessional Lutherans do believe in the real presence.I’ll give you some home work. The rift is at what point does it become the real presence. I beleive the way it goes is that Catholics believe in Transubstanciation and Lutherans Trans-con-substanciation. You look it up. But yes Confessional Lutherans do ask that you believe in the real Presence
of the Sacrament.
c
Dear Tim,
It is my understanding that Lutherans believe in consubstantiation. They believe that the Real Presence is WITH the bread and wine but Catholics believe in Transubstantiation, that the substance of the bread and wine is TRANSFORMED into the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ while retaining only the appearance/taste of bread and wine. So we are more closely aligned than with many Protestants.
I have heard that Lutherans believe the bread and wine become the presence of Christ as a result of the faith/belief of the recipient as opposed to being changed by the prayers of the priest/minister. Is this true?
This debate is barking up the wrong tree. Lutherans do indeed believe in the Real Presence, and definitely do **not** “…just get rid of the leftovers as so much garbage.” True, the Catholic church does not believe our orders are valid, and therefore, our clergy cannot, in their eyes, consecrate the elements in the Mass.
But, it is in the validity of ordained ministries where our differences lie. Lutherans do not insist on a three-fold order of ministry, and Lutherans are comfortable with ordaining women to the ministry of Word and Sacrament. This is fundamental to our lack of communion — I would never be comfortable receiving the Sacrament in a church that does not ordain women — to me such a church is not faithful to New Testament teaching — “there is neither Jew nor Gree, male nor female…”.
If this list is to get into differences between Roman Catholic teaching and that of the separated churches of the Reformation, please…let’s talk about the real issues, and not make accusations (e.g., the “garbage” comment noted above) that simply are not true.
bfhu, no, that isn’t true. That is a Calvinistic belief. Lutherans believe that both unbelievers and believers receive Christ’s true body and blood. Faith is needed in order to benefit from the Supper, however, otherwise, it is a judgment.
While we disagree with transubstantiation, in other respects, our belief is the same as the Roman Catholic view.