Evangelical Lutheran Church in America = Episcopal Church 2.0?

I am the most casual of amateur “Anglican watchers”… As a Catholic, looking at what is going on over in TEC causes me no glee, but honestly I see the writing on the wall. (Feel free to weigh in with disagreement – that is what comboxes are for!)

A Lutheran watcher,  I am not at any level – amateur or otherwise.  Recently, however, I am having a spell of being, I dunno “Lutheran Curious” as I see snippets here and there of things coming out of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) – America’s largest Lutheran body of just under 4.77M members, formed in 1988 with the merging of three Lutheran bodies, they are in full communion with the Episcopal Church.

Again, as a rank amature with no vested interest in the internal politics of this community myself (save a desire/fantasy – I admit – to see an end to the divisions and a return to Catholic unity on the part of all baptized).

But in the past few weeks of looking at some things that are coming out of some blogs and news  sources here and there about the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, I have come up with the following questions:

  1. What trajectory has the ELCA taken on the GLBT issue?  Today it appears they are about three to five years behind the Episcopal Church on the matter, with affirming clergy being lined up to shore up support of what seems to be an affirming stance that is coming…
  2. TEC and ELCA have an inter-communion and pulpit sharing arrangement… What influence has this had?  Some speculate that this re-enforces and re-affirms the influences of pro-GLBT parties within the ELCA… The TEC and ELCA in 2008 both have more clergy than ever, as their memberships both decline.  An observation that has been made by some is that in some diocese the TEC has rostered a good number of clergy who are not needed or used for parochial assignments, but serve – in effect – to “weight the strength of certain ideological agendas”… The ordinands have no or little parochial responsibility… but when it comes time to gather the rostered clergy to vote, they are votes that can be counted on.  “Stacking the deck” so to speak.  Is this a trend we have seen in the ELCA? 
  3. Has clergy sharing had this influence or allowed for re-enforcements to be sent into ELCA synods from TEC for similar stacking?
  4. What trends have we seen with ELCA congregations re-aligning in other synods? (The number of re-aligning congregations seems to have increased each year since 2002.)
  5. Has the divisions between Lutheran bodies like WELS, Missouri Synod and the ELCA had an effect on how the situation in the ELCA has played out in these last ten years?  That is to say at the time of formation of the ELCA, WELS & the Missouri Synod did not opt to join back in 1988… That being the case, is it already a de factosituation that folks who self-describe as conservative Lutherans are already pre-divided into other non-ELCA bodies allowing for smooth transitions into a female-minister dominated body that is traveling in a trajectory to be widely and openly affirming of pro-GLBT (Affirming of homogenital sex acts)?
  6. Continental Lutheranism (Germany and Scandinavia) has already gone the direction of the “mainline moderns”…  African Lutheranism – like African Anglicanism – seems to be more rooted in concepts of “Protestant Orthodoxy” with the eschewing of women’s ordination and pro-homosexual theologies.  Yet being that there is no “big tent Lutheran communion” analogous to what we see in Anglicanism with the world-wide communion and Lambeth, it would seem that neither Continental nor African bodies are in a position to exert pressures on the ELCA one way or another in the dramatic fashion that a global confrontation in The Anglican Communion has forced the hand of the TEC (in a fashion) to take a definative stand that (supposedly) will have an influence on TEC membership in the Anglican Communion.  As of 2008, I am sceptical this is going to happen in a fashion as dramatic as some predict – 11th hour comprimises seem to be the standard in the history of confrontations that liberal and affirming clergy and communities always recieve in a slow – if somewhat recently accelerated – war of attrition.  They always win.) Has this lack of a sense of world communion been a factor in the directions the ELCA has taken and will take?
  7. In the past few years we have seen well over 25 clergy and notable theologians from American Lutheranism embrace the Catholic Faith.  Has this exodus hindered movements within the ELCA to ?

Worth looking at:

LUTHERAN CHURCH MISSOURI SYNOD BLASTS ELCA OVER GAY STANCE
Statement regarding 2007 ELCA Churchwide Assembly Action

by Gerald B. Kieschnick
www.LCMS.org
August 13, 2007

Dear Brothers and Sisters in Christ:

Greetings in the Name of Jesus Christ, Savior of the world and Lord of the universe, through whom alone we receive forgiveness of sin, life, and salvation!

On the final day of its 2007 Churchwide Assembly in Chicago (Saturday, August 11), the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) adopted a resolution which “prays, urges, and encourages [ELCA geographical] synods, synodical bishops, and the presiding bishop to refrain from or demonstrate restraint in disciplining those rostered leaders in a mutual, chaste, and faithful committed same-gender relationship who have been called and rostered in this church.”

News of this action troubles me greatly and is causing serious concern and consternation among the members and leaders of The Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod (LCMS). We in the LCMS hold firmly to the conviction that, according to the Holy Bible, homosexual behavior is “intrinsically sinful.” We are deeply disappointed that the ELCA, by its decision, has failed to act in keeping with the historic and universal understanding of the Christian church regarding what Holy Scripture teaches about homosexual behavior as contrary to God’s will and about the biblical qualifications for holding the pastoral office.

The LCMS firmly believes that the sin of homosexual behavior, like every sinthat fallen human beings commit, has been paid for in full by the life, suffering, death and resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The LCMS also believes that we must continue to reach out in love to all people on the basis of what God’s Word alone teaches about human sinfulness, God’s grace in Christ, and the new life empowered by God’s Holy Spirit.

It should be noted that the ELCA voted not to amend at this time its governing documents regarding the expectations of its ordained workers in this area (this matter was referred to its task force on sexuality). However, its decision “to refrain from or demonstrate restraint in disciplining” ELCA workers in “a mutual, chaste, and faithful committed same-gender relationship” raises troubling questions about whether the expectations set forth in its governing documents will be taken seriously by the ELCA or by the task force.

The potential implications of decisions such as this for future LCMS-ELCA relations have been discussed in previous meetings involving leaders of the LCMS and the ELCA. In addition, I stated in my official greetings to the 2007 ELCA Assembly on Friday, August 10, “For the sake of our mutual witness and service together, the implications of such action, should it be taken, would need to be addressed, fraternally and evangelically.”

As the LCMS noted in a resolution adopted at its 2001 Convention (Resolution 3-21A), “we of the LCMS recognize that many of our brothers and sisters of the ELCA remain faithful to the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ and we resolve to reach out to them in love and support.”

As President of the LCMS, it is my ongoing hope and fervent prayer-as stated in my remarks to the 2003 ELCA Assembly-that the ELCA’s continuing “study and deliberation of this matter will be made in the light of the biblical understanding of human sexuality and the qualifications for the pastoral office.”

I also pray that God the Holy Spirit will lead and guide all Christians and Christian denominations everywhere to seek wisdom and truth from God’s inspired, inerrant, infallible Word on this and other critical issues in our contemporary church and culture.

—Dr. Gerald B. Kieschnick is President of the The Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod

15 Responses to “Evangelical Lutheran Church in America = Episcopal Church 2.0?”

  1. Tito Edwards Says:

    ELCA and the Presbyterians, along with the Pixies and possibliy the Methodists are going the way of the Unitarian-Universalists. (phew, getting tongue tied with all these protesting eclessial communities).

    The evangelicals will remain the only true eclessial community that will have any sense of orthodoxy (along with maybe the Missouri Synod Lutherans & Cumberland Presbyterians) that we have any similarities to.

    Oh well, we can pray that those leaving the liberal (liberal-leaning) denominations find their way home to Rome.

  2. directions for communion with god Says:

    [...] the writing on the wall. Feel free to weigh in with disagreement – that is what comboxes are for!http://theblackcordelias.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/evangelical-lutheran-church-in-america-episcopal-c…Read “RE: Living a Holy Life – Page 2 – Talk Jesus” at Help &amp Counsel Forum…Posted by Coconut [...]

  3. Simonbike Says:

    I love your blog…really.

  4. atheist Says:

    Cruelty and Violence in the Bible!
    1. Cruelty in the christ. Education
    2. Violence in the Bible
    3. War
    4. Genocide
    5. Racism
    6. Antisemitism
    7. Militarism
    8. Monotheism – Fasism
    9. Theokratism
    10. Separatism
    11. Hitlers Bible
    12. Nazi-Bible
    13. Judish Tora in Nazi-time
    14. Warpropagand in the Bible
    15. Racismpropagand in the Bible

    Atheist

    • asimplesinner Says:

      Cruelty and Violence in Athiesm:

      1) 12 M dead in Nazi Death Camps
      2) 20 M dead in USSR death camps and starvations
      3) 1.7 M dead in Cambodian death camps campaign
      4) 50 M abortions stopped beating hearts in the US alone since Roe v. Wade. This does not count the chemical abortions from abortifacients.

      Spam elsewhere.

  5. atheist Says:

    C h r i s t a n D e b a c l e i n I r a q w a r!
    1. Genocide in the Bible?
    2. Genocide Convention 1948
    3. 700.000.000.000 Dollars for ilegal War in Iraq!!!
    4. Evangelical Soldiers in Iraqwar!!!
    4. Zionist-Christian Soldiers in Iraqwar with the
    Military Bible!!!
    5. Zionst-Christian Soldiers in Iraqwar with
    U.S. Soldiers Bible!!!

  6. Joel Says:

    atheist,
    The genocide convention of 1948 you refer to consisted of the entire Mid-East trying to figure out how to finish the Holocaust. Luckly they failed.
    The last time I looked none of the US soldiers in Iraq wear a white surcoat with a red cross on it. Pedal your BS somewhere else.

  7. mark deuteronomovic Says:

    1. Inquisition + 1000 Years.
    2. The Bible: Ex.22:17.
    3. 9.000.000 Witches di!!!
    4. Colonialism and Christanismworld of ev. and kath.
    Church: 150.000.000 di.
    5. Holocaust in Middle and South America: Slavery in
    the Bible, and Slavery in U.S.A., Middle and South
    America.
    6. Criminals of the Bible, Criminal Story of christ.
    Kolonialworld.
    7. Christian C.I.A. kill 150.000.000 people round
    the World. Iraqwar, Afghan.war, War in Jugoslavia!
    8. Vietnamwar, (CIA).
    9. CIA-Bible
    10. NATO-Bible
    11. SOCOM-Bible! SOCOM Evangelical Soldiers in Iraq
    and Afghanistan.
    12. S.O.C.O.M. – Soldiers for Jesus Christ, and
    Soldiers of Christ!!!
    13. S.O.C.O.M. Wargames in Internetcoffes.
    14. S.O.C.O.M. – Bible & Military Bible
    15. S.O.C.O.M. – Soldiers Bible
    16. Military Bible in Afghanistan als Warpropagand!
    17. Adolf Hitlers Bible
    18. Adolf Eichmanns Bible
    19. Joseph Stalins Bible??? 50.000.000 people di!!!
    20. Barack Obamas Bible? Waragenda in Afghanistan!!!
    21. New U.S. Troups in Aghanistan.
    22. Afghanistan: Obamas New Vietnam???

    Atheist!

  8. mark deuteronomovic Says:

    Amityfoundationbible!!!
    1. Biblefactory in Nanking
    2. Genocideproductionpropagand of China
    3. Familiy Bible
    4. Children Bible? (Pedophilie, Cannibalism)
    5. Adolf Hitlers Bible
    6. Nazi-Bible
    7. Joseph Ratzingers Bible
    8. Desmond Tutus Bible
    9. Martin Luther Kings Bible
    10. Adolf Eichmanns Bible
    11. Michelle Obamas Bible
    12. SOCOM-Bible
    13. CIA-Bible
    14. AIPAC-Bible
    15. Simon Wiesenthals Bible
    16. Israels Army Bible
    17. U.S. Army Bible
    18. Nazi-Bible

    Atheist!!!

  9. John Says:

    A couple of factual corrections.
    The number of ordained clergy in TEC does not “stack the deck” in favor of any ideology. Votes at General Convention are in two houses, a House of Bishops, and a House of Deputies; the latter is evenly divided between elected clerical and lay delegates.
    There is a world-wide Lutheran Communion, called the Lutheran World Federation (LWF); its home is in Geneva. Since not all Lutheran churches have bishops, there is no equivalent to the Archbishop (or See) of Canterbury.

  10. asimplesinner Says:

    John,

    I am uncertain how any of the things you relay can be understood to be factual errors. On the score of “deck stacking” your “correction” does not stand out as a correction at all. However PECUSA/ECUSA/TEC goes about voting on doctrine, dogma and discipline, I stand by what I profered – namely that alternate credentialing and rostering has been influential in idealogical struggles. I would suggest that patterns of deck-stacking with idealogues is well useful in getting a community to a point where the make-up of the convention itself has been influenced.

    The LWF is NOT analagous to Anglican communion. It is not a governing body and dates back only to 1947. It does not vote on doctrine, dogma or discipline, and does not envision itself as a manifestation of a complete church.

  11. John Says:

    I think it could be argued that the make-up of General Convention has been more influenced by the exit of the conservative wing of the church for ACNA, than by the number of clergy in TEC.
    The Anglican Communion also is not a governing body; its member churches are completely autonomous. Though its history goes back further than LWF, it’s hard to see anything that could be considered a “communion” before the Lambeth Conferences in the late 19th-century. LWF describes itself as “A Cmmunion of Churches.” Whatever differences there may be, they each recognize the other as the appropriate body for international dialogue (e.g., the membership of the Anglican-Lutheran International Working Group was appointed by LWF and the Anglican Communion).

  12. mark deuteronomovic Says:

    Under Rumsfeld, Pentagon published Bible verses on top-secret intel reports.
    In a lengthy article on Donald Rumsfeld’s rocky tenure as Defense Secretary, GQ published never-before-seen cover sheets from top-secret intelligence briefings produced by Rumsfeld’s Pentagon. Starting in the days surrounding the U.S. invasion of Iraq, the cover sheets featured inspirational Bible verses printed over military images, [...]
    The translated Bibles appear to be the New Testament. According to Al Jazeera, US soldiers “had them specially printed and shipped to Afghanistan.” On the tape, one soldier describes how his church in the US helped raise money for the bibles. Al Jazeera reports that “What these soldiers have been doing may well be in direct violation of the US Constitution, their professional codes and the regulations in place for all forces in Afghanistan.” The US military officially forbids “proselytising of any religion, faith or practice.” But, as Al Jazeera reports:

  13. Nan Says:

    Do you really believe Al Jazeera?

  14. max benser Says:

    Oh, I liked Friedrich Nietzsche first, he is my Idol.
    Jesus Christ is the biggest Idiot in the Bible, and a
    biggest Dogma or Hypothese in christian stupid World.
    He believ Jesus, is a realy sick, mental sick!

    Atheist 100%

Leave a Reply